Sub Genres

[FuZion]

This one's been racking my brain for a while now & wondered if anyone would like to throw some ideas into the mix.

 

Sub Genres. How do we define them? The thing that's getting me is that a sub genre could be described as a type of sound within the genre.

 

One example being Liquid. Not such a tough one. Liquid DnB tends to have lighter, smoother sounds. Occasionally they are vocal pieces & maybe have a sort of 'summer time' vibe to them.

 

Another, Jump Up. Bouncy basslines would be their main trait. But sometimes Jump up is referred to as Clown Step. Is that a derogatory term or is it another form of Jump Up sound? How do we define a sub genre & get round to picking those terms. If it's the way we describe a track, a grimey sound could lead someone to Tech Itch tracks, but someone else might see Hazards tunes as grimey.

 

What sub genres does RDB have in the database? or are they simply entered as needed?

How do we describe; Intelligent DnB, TechoStep,Techno, Neurofunk, Electronica & therefore pick the tracks that fit?

 

Fortunately, releases & even individual tracks can cover more than one sub genre.

 

I'm asking this because I plan to provide details on RDB for everything in my including samples, artwork & websites. What I don't want to do is pick sub genres & end up being right off the mark.

 

Thanks, FuZion.

[haste]

There are a few sub-genres in there at the moment. We thought fairly long and hard about genres and mapped out which ones we wanted to include and which, for now at least, we didn't want to use.

 

Bear in mind that the genres in the system cover all music styles so we didn't want to overload the site with every single sub-genre of d&b

 

The d&b ones at the moment are

 

Techstep

Jump Up

Intelligent

Neurofunk

Liquid

Drumfunk

Minimal D&B

 

Clown step was not included for the reasons pointed out. It's not really a genre but just a way to describe jump up d&b.

 

Our opinion on the whole sub-genre thing is that it's better to use a wider description for stuff rather than trying to use every term that could be used to describe tunes. The genres on RDB are meant to be there as a guideline for visitors to give them a basic idea about what the tune sounds like. "Jump up" does this well, but if we started adding "Wobble", "Clown step" etc. it all just gets too confusing and subjective (and a nightmare to maintain).

 

For us, simple is best and we thought that those sub-genres above could cover pretty much anything in the database. If there are things missing then please do suggest new ones to be added

[FuZion]

I like it.

 

Is there a way at present to see, Techstep DnB tunes in a list for example or at present is it just a case of finding the tunes & seeing the sub genre in their own file/page?

 

Thanks for the response Haste, FuZion.

[haste]

No, sorry. No way at the moment to see lists of tunes by tag. It's something that I will build in when we have pages for tracks. Until then I can't really integrate that info into the site easily.

[droid]

Jump up today is very different to Jump up 15 years ago... If I searched for Jump Up Id expect to find lighter and super sharp shooter...

[haste]

You'd get them both but you'd also see what year they came from. Obviously a jump up tune from '95 will be vastly different to one from 2010.

[droid]

hmmm... But if they're vastly different why are they classed as the same sub-genre?

[haste]

I see your wink but don't know if you're serious or not there.

 

Jump Up tunes from '95 were tunes made for the dancefloor. Jump Up tunes from 2010 are tunes made for the dancefloor. They are the same thing but a lot changes in 15 years.

[droid]

Im being facetious, but there is a semi-serious point behind it.

 

As I understand it descriptions 'for the dancefloor' doesn't really describe a genre or style - its the sonic qualities of the music that give it its category. BPM, Instrumentation, types of samples and sounds used etc... Otherwise you end up in a sea of subjectivity - pretty much all jungle is made for the dancefloor after all, but we all know that there is a sliding scale... sub-genre/genre/style names need to be as objective as possible IMO.

 

I think the main justification for using the term "Jump Up' would be that its commonly used by people in the scene to describe the music today. Sonically Id say that the jump up of today is totally different to the Jump Up of the mid-90s... you could argue that the attitude or intent of the music is the same, but I'm not sure even that would stand up.

 

Regardless, Im not trying to start an argument here. Ive been asking myself these kinds questions myself for a few eons now...

[haste]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Perhaps my use of "for the dancefloor" didn't really put across what I meant best. Of course the types of sounds etc. use also contribute to how you'd categorise a tune but I would definitely say that jump up back then and now are the same in many ways. I hate the vast majority of new jump up and love the old stuff but can definitely see how they are similar and both deserve the same tag.

 

Anyway, we're not going to add "jump up (old)" and "jump up (new)" as sub-genres so there's no real way to solve this that I can think of. To me Techstep means something pretty different (mid 90s No U Turn stuff) to a lot of people who got into d&b in the late 90s (Virus Recs etc.) but neither are wrong and both deserve to be tagged that way

[FuZion]

Our current list of sub-genres looks like this:

 

- Drumfunk

- Intelligent

- Jump Up

- Liquid

- Minimal D&B

- Neurofunk

- Techstep

 

And I found this list on the Wiki page for Drum & Bass:

 

- Darkstep (or "Darkside" or "Dark", the return of the old skool sound of Drum and bass made with new technology - Equinox, Breakage ext)

- Drill and Bass (characterized by extremely complex and detailed drum programming)

- Halfstep (or drumstep is half beat drum and bass. The term drumstep in particular is often confused with Dubstep.)

- Drumfunk (or "Choppage", "Edits" - atmospheric drum and bass with heavy emphasis on break-styled drum loops, occasionally broken up by drumless atmospheric passages)

- Hardstep

- Intelligent (or "Atmospheric" or "Ambient")

- Jazzstep (or "Jazz and Bass")

- Jump-Up

- Liquid funk (or simply "Liquid")

- Sambass (or "Brazilian Drum and Bass")

- Techstep (or "Tech")

- Techno-DNB (or "Techno Drum and Bass")

- Neurofunk (or "Neuro" is the progression from Techstep)

 

The following are to a lesser and great degree, arguable subgenres, they would generally be described as separate genres by their proponents:

 

- Breakcore (arguably a different genre, not a subgenre, with many differences)

- Darkcore (both a precursor and a descendant of drum and bass since modern darkcore productions share much with darkstep

- Raggacore (arguably a different genre, not a subgenre, with many differences)

- Ragga jungle (arguably a different genre, not a subgenre - a modern sound which shares most if not all characteristics with early jungle music - difficult to differentiate - perhaps through frequent mention of H.I.M. Haile Selassie and other Rastafarian themes)

 

Now we all know how accurate Wiki can be, but some of the ones we don't have listed, could be useful & accurate additions as well as perhaps renaming Minimal D&B to Halfstep. This could help with both continuity for those that have looked into this & found the wiki page, as well expand our options & accuracy in describing the sub-genres in the scene. I also like the descriptions to help pin the sound down a little.

 

How do people feel about these options?

 

FuZion.

[Phokus]

The halfstep/drumstep stuff isn't the same as minimal, to me. the drumstep stuff is half time drums with wobbly basslines (as pushed by Rider, Heist etc), whereas the minimal stuff is the stuff that Instra:mental etc are doing.

[FuZion]

I'm with you on Instru:Mental being minimal, along with productions such as what Data puts out.

 

The description of Halfstep being 'half beat drum and bass', to me sounded the same in terms of description.

 

Then here lies a slight difficulty with sub-genres; how people perceive the sound of a sub-genre. Luckily, RDB lets us use more than one, which allows some scope for those elastic rules that DnB uses.

 

FuZion.

[haste]

Minimal & Halfstep are definitely different things.

 

Happy to include whatever people think are legit genres, not that I agree with all of the above but have to admit that my knowledge of new d&b is very limited!

[FuZion]

Here's one,

 

Where would people put the likes of Technical Itch or Dieselboy? Very hard sounding or grinding beats & basslines. It's pretty clear what they're not, but I'm struggling to pick a descriptive sub genre we have here.

 

With those wiki ones I mentioned above, Darkstep, Drill & Bass or Hardstep appear to fit the bill. What's peoples thoughts?

 

FuZion.

[haste]

Hardstep to me means something else entirely. Hardstep was a term that was used a fair bit in the mid 90s to refer to stuff that wasn't ragga jungle and wasn't atmospheric/Bukem style jungle. I haven't included it in the genres list as I don't think it's really that useful and never really had a well defined sound or anything as most jump up at the time could have also been called Hardstep. I have no idea if people use this term today but I've never come across it in a modern context.

 

Darkstep and Drill & Bass. If they're actually used then sure we can add them but I don't remember anyone ever using these. I've kinda heard of Drill & Bass but isn't that used to describe crazy speedcore/noise type d&b?

[FuZion]

This sub genre thing is a hard one, I think I'm gonna need to get a few peoples ideas before I go genre-ing tunes up only to have people think something else, so here's 4 tunes for pondering time.

 

Where would people place Tech Itch, Stealth: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/tech_itch_records/ti026/

A very hard faced, yet kinda minimal steppa. Minimal D&B or not minimal enough so it becomes a Techstep?

 

How about a production from Photek, Things: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/sanctuary_records/sancd433/

(I've added a youtube video so people can check this one out). But check the drop at 1:51 before you think liquid.

 

Or a Seba piece called, Forever: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/secret_operations/secops008/

Very gentle, but layered with some amazing breaks. So would this be classed as Liquid or something more drummy?

 

And lastly, Martsman here: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/warm_communications/warm014/

Both very experimental, but where would they sit?

 

Take the sub-genres we have in place at the moment;

 

- Drumfunk

- Intelligent

- Jump-Up

- Liquid

- Minimal D&B

- Neurofunk

- Techstep

 

And see what you think for those 4 tunes.

 

FuZion.

[haste]

I'm useless at the sub-genre thing so won't bother to get into this one. I would like to point out that my main concern is making sure that every track has a parent genre in place so where you know something is d&b (or whatever it might be) then it would be great if you could add that straight away!

[FuZion]

In that case, I'm on it

 

Off topic, I'm converting & snipping clips as we speak.

 

FuZion.

[haste]

Nice one!

[FuZion]

This sub genre thing is a hard one, I think I'm gonna need to get a few peoples ideas before I go genre-ing tunes up only to have people think something else, so here's 4 tunes for pondering time.

 

Where would people place Tech Itch, Stealth: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/tech_itch_records/ti026/

A very hard faced, yet kinda minimal steppa. Minimal D&B or not minimal enough so it becomes a Techstep?

 

How about a production from Photek, Things: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/sanctuary_records/sancd433/

(I've added a youtube video so people can check this one out). But check the drop at 1:51 before you think liquid.

 

Or a Seba piece called, Forever: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/secret_operations/secops008/

Very gentle, but layered with some amazing breaks. So would this be classed as Liquid or something more drummy?

 

And lastly, Martsman here: http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/warm_communications/warm014/

Both very experimental, but where would they sit?

 

Take the sub-genres we have in place at the moment;

 

- Drumfunk

- Intelligent

- Jump-Up

- Liquid

- Minimal D&B

- Neurofunk

- Techstep

 

And see what you think for those 4 tunes.

 

FuZion.

 

No takers?

 

FuZion.