debaser Posted February 5, 2003 Report Posted February 5, 2003 itd be nice to have a genre or style section for each tune. i suppose this could be a judgemental thing, that varies from person to person. but i think itd be a valuble thing to add, as most tunes can be defined easily. raggaold schoolmashupintelligentetcetc.... discuss Quote
Logic Posted February 5, 2003 Report Posted February 5, 2003 Like you said, my only concern would be for how subjective each one is. I imagine if we ever get around to soundclips, it wouldn't be necessary - if you wondered about a tune, you could just listen to it. I dunno. It would be helpful, but would probably create quite a fuss as well. :? Quote
debaser Posted February 5, 2003 Author Report Posted February 5, 2003 Like you said, my only concern would be for how subjective each one is. I imagine if we ever get around to soundclips, it wouldn't be necessary - if you wondered about a tune, you could just listen to it. I dunno. It would be helpful, but would probably create quite a fuss as well. :?yeah true true. thou, id say most tunes are fairly easy to stick into a category or two. but youre right alot of it is personal opinion. hmm, ets scrap this anyways and get on with the soundclips!! Quote
xo Posted February 5, 2003 Report Posted February 5, 2003 how about the ability to add reviews... obviously each tune would get a lot of conflicting opinions... but then again it would be nice to add samples too wouldnt it? but then we end up using lots of space and bandwidth... there are many possibilities. Quote
thijs Posted February 5, 2003 Report Posted February 5, 2003 about the comments.. i'm digging through the source of this forum to figure out a possible way to use this forum for adding comments to releases... i'll keep you updated 8) Quote
Logic Posted February 6, 2003 Report Posted February 6, 2003 about the comments.. i'm digging through the source of this forum to figure out a possible way to use this forum for adding comments to releases... i'll keep you updated 8) I imagine you've seen the way Dogs on Acid does it? I know they're not using PHPBB, but still.... I'm sure Brian Peace (DOA's coder) would be more than willing to share coding tips with you. Quote
thijs Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 getting back to the topic now. i have been having many requests about adding genres, and want to give it a go now (don't worry about all those other things, i am working on it, just don't have to much time at the moment). before i'll be making any changes i have a few questions for you people. 1. first of all there is the choice of the ammount of genres. personally i think genres add a piece of knowledge so a viewer (or listener) knows what type of jungle/d&b/hardcore he or she can expect. from this point of view it makes sense to have as less different genres as possible. on the other hand, since the idea is to make the database as complete as possible one could say why not just add as much as possible. thing is... that we would be able to have endless discussions about what exact genre a certain track is. so what would you say? 2. second, genres can be added to: labels / releases / tracks. the last will probably be the best, specially because of various compilations etc. surely the php script can come up with a genre for a release as well then (once again the less genres the better in this case). same goes for labels, hehe we could even come up with statistics with what types of music a certain label has released. on the other hand releases/labels would be much less work to have them all added. but don't get me wrong, being the perfectionist that i am i'm willing to go for the tracks bizznizz. 3. this last will probably make this one of the longest threads on the board. lets come up with an initial genre list, and decide which we keep and which we don't. if you name a genre please add labels names which generally release that type of music, and if possible a short description on which one would be able to decide whether a certain track is from that genre or not... now.. go go go :mrgreen: Quote
spoox Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 well you could just start at the beginning and kinda go through the stages things have evolved through.. (which again, is quite objective to some) hardcore / oldskool / ravedarksideraggajump-upintelligent / bukem&bassjazzstep / jazz&bass whatnottechstepneurofunknu-breedtrance&bass / gabberoid / experimentalbroken beat / drill & bass / .. lalalalalaalalalaaaaaaaaanot easy to name these babies hehe Quote
thijs Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 that's a start... hmm.. bukem & bass :mrgreen: uhm.. just curious, what kind of stuff would you call nu-breed? Quote
thijs Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 been doing some searching and found this on http://www.electronicscene.com JungleJungle evolved from breakbeat and hardcore, and is generally acknowledged to be the predecessor of d?n?b. Speedy breaks, complex rhythms and highly-varied percussion couple with heavy basslines and ragga vocals. Jungle can have a funkier edge to it than d?n?b due to a heavier reliance on traditional breaks. Often, however, the terms are used interchangeably. The current term used to describe this more roots-oriented type of d?n?b is ?jump up,? although this may also refer to more danceable takes on this style. Drum & BassD'n'b is fast-paced (usually more than 150 bpm up to 200 bpm or more), rhythm-focused electronic with an emphasis on intricate and complex drum sequencing and breaks, coupled with a fat, powerful bottom end. Melodic elements are similarly complexly sequenced, and are usually aggressively electronic and feature many effects. Song structure is very important, as the music often includes many changes. Vocals are relatively uncommon, media sampling is similarly not a regular feature, but really anything and everything that can be sampled and sequenced probably will be. ExperimentalAs the name suggests, Experimental music breaks all the rules and opens the door to intensive sonic exploration. While a lack of melody is not essential, most experimental music finds obvious melody too mainstream and instead uses unusual sounds and filter effects to produce unexpected juxtapositions and structures. Generally, if a track has a good beat, gets your toe tapping, has some nice vocals and synth lines, then it isn?t Experimental. IDM?Though the explanation of the abbreviation is not certain (some people use Intelligent Dance Music, while others use Industrial Dance Music) the style was mainly created by aphex twin and the rest of the WARP crew. IDM is a style with a lot of subtle sounds and changes, mainly built on organic sounds. IDM artists experiment a lot with sounds and effects. While the D in IDM stands for Dance, a lot of IDM music is not really dance-music, but music to listen to? (Stefan Koopmanschap, May 26, 00). TechstepTech step is d?n?b with the mean meter turned up to 11. Hard and aggressive, emphasis is paced on extremely fat and nasty basslines that crank and growl. As with all d?n?b, beats and drums are focal and complex. Tempo is often very fast, but does not have to be. ?Crisp two step beats. Dark techno, sci-fi influences. Huge bass lines, often having lots of filter effects. Aimed at the dancefloors. 170-180 bpms. (Artist: S.O.U. - Minmalien, Transfusion, slipstream, etc.)? (ReKwest - 06/08/00). DarkstepTwo-step D?n?B with an unhealthy dose of evil. There is little to distinguish Dark Step from Tech Step, except perhaps for Tech Step?s tendency to be a little more sci-fi influenced and aggressively technoid, versus Dark Step?s tendency to be more organic and broodingly evil. Ambient Drum & Bass?Swirly pads, atmospheric soundscapes. Ambient, chill out drum n bass. Not so much for the dance floor as for the headphones. Complex drum programming? (ReKwest, 06/08/00). ?This is an offshoot of DnB, created more for the pleasure of listening to than dancing to. Interesting melodies blend with atmospheric pads and ambience on top of artistic drum patterns. Although often conventional, many artists take great strides to create a very unique style with this music. Many artists have incorporated a Dub style into their music as well. This is a calming, often meditative, style of Drum and Bass music and is becoming ever more present in the music scene? (Aois-Dubh, 06/06/00). As these descriptions suggest, Ambient D?n?B is a softer and more subtle take on D?n?B. The bass lines are often less busy and provide an anchor for complex and, usually, very light-sounding drumwork. Nu Skool BreaksNu Skool Breaks is a form of breakbeat. The term was invented in 1998 when djs adam freeland, rennie pilgrem and tayo played at a new night called "friction" in london. However nowadays many prefer to use the term breakbeat. Back then they played dark and filthy breaks tracks, downpitched drum'n'bass and fresh sounding electro and basically started the scene from scratch. Nowadays producers like ils, koma&bones, tipper, BT and many more are amongst the most profilic producers who push the sound forward. Nu Skool Breaks clocks at 130 - 140 bpm, has a breakbeat rhythm and melts elements of techno, electro, drum'n'bass (basslines mostly) into a danceble, accessible music that has quickly gone round the world. Scenes are to be found in the uk, holland, australia, belgium, sweden, switzerland, germany, spain (!), the states and in eastern europe such as budapest. many a top act has asked for remixes from the nu skool camp such as: orbital, nsync (!), and new order. BreakbeatWith an emphasis on clearly defined percussion and syncopated beats, breakbeat has established itself as one of the major ?parent? genres from which many subgenres have spun off. Besides the obvious ?Funky Breaks,? Breaks are at the heart of d?n?b, trip hop, much down tempo, illbient, and any other genres that feature groovy, syncopated rhythms. Breakbeat usually features a 4/4 time signature, a snare on 2 and 4, and a tendency to slice up drum loops and rearrange their emphasis (often moving emphasis on and off the third beat). The James Brown/funk influence is often clearly seen in the use of vocal punctuation (?HUNH!?) and the ?break? - a point in the track where all elements are suddenly and climactically suspended, followed by a syncopated percussive lead-in or vocal before the other elements resume. While breakbeat is ideal for breakdancing, the syncopation and unusual rhythms can make it difficult for the regular dancefloor crowd. Happy HardcoreHappy Hardcore is like Gabber, but with friendlier sounds and it tends to be a bit more listenable. I tend to think of it as self mocking music personally. Played super-fast and loud, but just these happy little beats? (Jimmy DeWitt, 06/11/00). Piano beats, female vocals, and background bass/strings with tempos from 160-200 bpm. Also known as and ?soft gabber? and ?4 beat? for its 4/4 rhythms. The sound and attitude are upbeat, happy, and energetic for a full body dance experience. BreakcoreBreakcore combines elements of industrial techno, gabber, drum 'n bass, and noise. It relies on breakbeats which are then chopped up and distorted to extremes. Notable examples included DJ Scud, Slepcy, Rotator, Somatic Responses and Venetian Snares. Drill & BassExperimental DnB/Jungle freakouts where the sound retriggering gets so tight that it sounds like a drill. Extremely fast bpm that presents intensely heavy walls of sound. HardcoreIt seems inevitable that any given genre will have fans and adherents who like it but want it harder and faster. This is exactly the case with hardcore. Old school techno and rave with the attitude turned up: heavily effected percussion, aggressive synth lines, and sampled live performance sounds. Hardcore tempos keep rising as the genre develops, with tempos frequently exceeding 200 bpm. Bred in Rotterdam and Scotland, hardcore is notable for its tendency to increase tempo within a given track (and across successive tracks) to match the hardcore dancing body?s increasing metabolism rate - you work harder, it gets faster. RaveAlso known as Old Skool, Rave is music not so much defined by style as by time and place. With elements of Acid House, EBM, Trance, and other electronic roots, Rave gets the crowd stompin and is tailor made for cranking up large, sweaty masses of people. Energetic but not frenetic, driving but not aggressive. Look for the distinctive sounds of early synths such as the 303, and unabashedly electronic/digital sounds and effects. Speed GarageA mix of Garage House and Jungle/D'nB, Speed Garage is a UK urban phenomenon of fairly recent origins. Relegated to "Sunday" nights because London clubs weren't ready to feature this style of music on busy Fridays and Saturdays, the Sunday Scene of "Speedgarage" was born. Armand Van Helden, is generally acknowledged as the originator of the house/d'nb mix but it was in the UK that the style was picked up, spread through underground radio and evolved with artists such as Todd Edwards and Tuff Jam. (Armageddon Project, 06/13/00 - from Raw42) Quote
thijs Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 taken from http://www.clubdjforum.com: Oldskool/Hardcore This pretty much kicked off the scene in the early 90's and was MASSIVE!!! A fusion of what is now know as "drum n bass", jungle" & "break beat" with a twisted hardcore kick. Often oldskool harcore had vocals & samples or rapping (MCs). Fairly slow by todays standards but yet fast for it's time this really took the UK by storm!!! Label Examples:. Kickin, Suburban Bass, Strictly Underground, Reinforced, Production House Artist/DJ Examples:. Urban Shakedown, 2 Bad Mice, DJ Hype, DJ Rap, Nookie Jungle This is the fastest & most frantic of the off-beat music and what I would most associate with old skool hardcore. Much MCing still goes on in the jungle scene and there is much energy to be found in the music. Label Examples:. Reinforced, Kemet, Back 2 Basics, Formation Artist/DJ Examples:. Alex Reece, Ganja Kru, Aphrodite Drum n BassThis is less mental than jungle but probably more bass-heavy. It's slower & has more distinct beats. There are 2 main divisions in drum n bass; inteligent & noisy!!! The sample below is "inteligent" - it is more laid back & distinct than other drum n bass. Generally drum n bass doesn't really use vocals, however recently there has been a few commercial releases & vocals are bcomming more common. Label Examples:. Good Looking, Looking Good, Moving Shadow Artist/DJ Examples:. LTJ Bukem Break BeatThis is what I know least about! Basically it's a brokn chopped up beat variations include "big beat" - have a listen to the sample & see! Label Examples:. Botchit, SkintArtist/DJ Examples:. Fatboy Slim, Rennie Pilgrim HardcoreHardcore can be happy & cheesy, dark & devious, uplifting & vocal or a mixture of tme all..it has now become a very general term and has split into various sub-genres. There are 2 very obvious features of a hardcore track; 1) the speed - usually over 160bpm 2) the bassline - very distinctive! Listen to the sample blow to get an idea of the hardcore sound & below I'll describe some of the sub-genres. Label Examples:. Go Mental Dark, RuffkneckArtist/DJ Examples:. Bass X Happy Hardcore This does exactly what it says on the tin!!! 160+bpm "happy" music, often sampling big chart tunes & even arcade games, happy hardcore nearly always has a big paino rift. Normally appealing to the younger age group (14-18 year olds) - and massive in Scotland, this is the reason glowsticks & white gloves were invented Label Examples:. JAL, Happy Vibes, Go MentalArtist/DJ Examples:. Sy, Hixxy, DJ Seduction GabbaAlso refered to as "gabber", this is extreme hardcore! The crazy mental 190bpm harcore (& it can get faster!!!) can be dark, with German-style shouting or piss-taking using well known samples. Label Examples:. MokumArtist/DJ Examples:. Technohead Quote
spoox Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 just curious, what kind of stuff would you call nu-breed? that's just something people here call all this new skool drum & bass with everything from lots of electro and trance ding-dong-pling-plong sounds in it to stuff like concord dawn "morning light" etc.. probably not a good genre..... Quote
haste Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 right for old skool stuff i'd say hardcore = 91/92/93 stuff - pianos & all thatdarkside hardcore - 93 stylehappy hardcore - 94 onwardsragga jungle (for want of a better term) - 94 stylejump up - 96 etc - chopper remix styleeeatmospheric/intelligent - bukem etc the stuff after that goes into too many different genres. i don't think there's a need for all that many really. i really don't see the need for all these type of things jazzstep / jazz&bass whatnot techstep neurofunk nu-breed trance&bass / gabberoid / experimental broken beat / drill & bass / .. as everyone has different names for then all and tries to pigeon hole them too much. surely there should just be a couple of types of drum & bass, something along the lines of hard dnb"liquid" dnband maybe some more...there's really no need to go any further something like nu-breed wont be called that when it's not new any more....genre names like that come & go every week Quote
haste Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 ps to me techstep means 1995 no u turn stuff and that's it to ppl who got into it all later (or ppl not from the uk) it means something different Quote
xo Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 ps to me techstep means 1995 no u turn stuff and that's it to ppl who got into it all later (or ppl not from the uk) it means something differentagreed. Quote
mi:t Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 there is a need to invent a word for tunes like 'morning light' & tech itch's 'calling'. the producers aren't all new to the scene, so 'nu-breed' wouldn't fit. it's this techno-trance dnb sound that's going around. but it's not techstep for my account either.jazz&bass is a pretty good term. don't believe there's a need for further explaining [e.g. latin dnb].there's definetly need for a distinction between atmospheric / intelligent dnb. how do you call Photek atmospheric !!!??? intelligent isn't also a very good word [not that it isn't it] but just sounds cheesy. experimental dnb perhaps? Quote
haste Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 the problem is you are going to have to allow a blanket term like "intellignet dnb" cover a wide range of tunes....such as photek. there's no point having 15 different types of intelligent dnb....it makes no sense at all one man's opionion is always different from another so i suggest keeping it VERY simple. you may not agree though Quote
mi:t Posted April 9, 2003 Report Posted April 9, 2003 i agree with you that 'intelligent dnb' as a term has established itself into the terminology. my main point was that it should be kept separate from atmospheric 'atmospheric dnb'. Quote
haste Posted April 10, 2003 Report Posted April 10, 2003 well i dunno. this is alreay showing up how different people's opinions can confuse things. to me intelligent & atmospheric dnb are pretty much the same thing Quote
Logic Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 I don't think the idea of genres is a really good one because of how subjective it is, and it will become redundant when we have soundclips up. If genres were to be implemented, however, I'm with Haste on this one: fewer is better. I'll also say this - it is IMPERATIVE that each genre we decide on has a definition made public to users. It does no good to call a tune "Tech Step" if one man's interpretation of the word is completely different to the next guy's. Incidentally, I disagree with many of those definitions you pulled off that website, Tarzan. :roll: :mrgreen: Quote
komando Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 how about we keep it real simple and have genres of oldschool, jungle, and drum n bass Quote
haste Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 how about we keep it real simple and have genres of oldschool, jungle, and drum n bass yup hardcorejungledrum & bass :?: Quote
haste Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 only problem being that some tunes aren't just hardcore or jungle....likewise when does a label stop releasing jungle and make dnb take ram for example they started making hardcore then went through the jungle years then on to dnb RAMM01 Andy C Visions RAMM02 Origin Unknown Eastern Promise Part 1 RAMM03 Andy C Bass Constructor RAMM04 Origin Unknown The Touch RAMM05 Elevation Make It Right Part 1 RAMM06 Andy C Slip N Slide RAMM07 Desired State Beyond Bass RAMM08 Uncle 22 6 Million Ways To Die DJ Hype RemixRAMM09 Flatliner The Big BangRAMM10 Shimon PredatorRAMM11 Randall Andy C Sound ControlRAMM12 Andy C Cool DownRAMM13 Desired State Goes AroundRAMM14 Origin Unknown Truly OneRAMM15 Stakka K.Tee Danger ZoneRAMM16 Origin Unknown Valley Of The Shadows RAMM17 Shimon Andy C QuestRAMM18 Shimon Andy C MutationRAMM19 Concept 2 No MistakeRAMM20 Shimon Andy C TerraformRAMM21 Moving Fusion Turbulence but where would you put the genre changes in???? Quote
komando Posted April 11, 2003 Report Posted April 11, 2003 thats why i was thinking doing it record by record not by label.... Quote
haste Posted April 12, 2003 Report Posted April 12, 2003 thats why i was thinking doing it record by record not by label....that's what i'm saying too..... but if you look at ram's releases where do you draw the line from them moving through hardcore to jungle to dnb....it's actually quite difficult. some tunes aren't just jungle or hardcore or dnb Quote
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