genres

[eXtreme]

I would say in Ram's Case :

 

1-8 = Hardcore

9-17 = Jungle

18+ = Drum & Bass

 

this is based on the time of release & the general name for the music at the time :?

[Logic]

See, the only stuff I call Hardcore is stuff with a 4/4 kicker in it. If there's no 4/4, it's jungle. That makes RAMM08 definitely jungle, IMO. :mrgreen:

[haste]

1-8 = Hardcore

9-17 = Jungle

18+ = Drum & Bass

hmmmmm yeah i agree pretty much.....#8 is tricky though

 

noit sure about quest either though.....i dunno if i'd call that jungle

[eXtreme]

Had a feeling 008 would be a problem one, released winter '93 on the verge of the hardcore/jungle name change-over. ........? who knows, but for me it's Hardcore.

 

Quest, definetly jungle for me,

[thijs]

oh boy this genre thingie is gonna be fun :mrgreen:

[Ornette]

Had a feeling 008 would be a problem one, released winter '93 on the verge of the hardcore/jungle name change-over. ........? who knows, but for me it's Hardcore.

 

Quest, definetly jungle for me,

 

I woulnd't say hardcore changed over to jungle at that point, eXtreme.

 

1993 was a very complex year. which saw the whole scene developing at a ridculous pace. What a rollercoaster ride it was too

 

I would say that later into 1992 saw a trend where the music developed away from the ravey aspects of the scene, becoming known as hardcore junglist. (That's when I got into the scene).

 

Junglist, which I would define as early Kemet/Armshouse/Hard & Pure/Studio II first came about perhaps late 1992 with people like Good, 2 Bad & Huglyand A Guy Called Gerald, DJ Nex but really came into its own right during 1993. Where as a definite Jungle sound could be said to have finally came about later that year with perhaps some of the later M-Beat stuff.

 

But throughout that time drum & bass was a term, even from 1992, although little used (I first noticed the term when Criminal Minds used it to describe "Headhunter" in a magazine article back in 92 - hey - yet another track I'd hail as being a early 'junglist' pathfinder!)

 

I think that drum & bass became more often used during 1993 with the heavier stuff that emerged that could not be defined really as hardcore and was certainly not any kind of junglist. Take Intense's "Paradox" or DJ Trace's "Lost Entity". Or even Orca's "Shining Bright" (thx 4 recent ID, eX!) or DJ Crystl's "Warpdrive" or even especially perhaps "Meditation".

 

I have no idea about the 'other' stand... i.e. the one that became happy hardcore (vomit)

[sch_pr]

Had a feeling 008 would be a problem one

Yeah, and it's just ONE record (and for me it's definitly jungle )

when you gonna come to things such as anthill mob or ellis dee's ones it's gonna be a real mess

 

i don't know if it's such a great idea to rank them by genre

music history is a flow. it's continuous

 

even when it comes to make differences between jungle and dnb, this will make problems with a lot of records too.

and there will be tracks that can be hardcore/jungle/dnb...

 

after all this is all just breakbeat :rolleyes:

no?

 

 

If this really have to be :

it would be a great thing if records could have several entries

(for the Ram8 : Hardcore / jungle)

[Matt]

allow categorising it, all those names mean different things to different people

 

mashup? experimental? what the fuck is that????

[Guest Guest]

I don't think the database needs genres. It's not something that can be quantified so should not be in the database imo.

 

And besides, if the soundclips thing ever happens, the listener can make up their own mind

[Java]

Agree with the above, genres are unneccessary . . . can't really see the purpose it serves.

[blah]

keeping it simple is the best plan as where the info about a tune or artist or record and its release years and other stuff like that can be found out , genres is more about what you personally think a tunes description should fall into and that will cause more arguments than anything on this site . info and data on artist/label stuff etc is mainly correct , genres is more of a choice than the truth.

 

unless you manage to ask all the original producers on the data base what there tune's description should fall into ?, like that will happen. :rolleyes:

Edited December 19, 2005 by blah

[haste]

I think there is a place for having genre listed, especially seeing as the site, at some point, may branch out into more than just jungle/dnb. It would be good to have multi-genre 12s listed and the genres will really only be there to show whether a tune is dnb as opposed to house or hip hop, not to pin point the exact type of dnb that the track is.

[sch_pr]

I think there is a place for having genre listed, especially seeing as the site, at some point, may branch out into more than just jungle/dnb. It would be good to have multi-genre 12s listed and the genres will really only be there to show whether a tune is dnb as opposed to house or hip hop, not to pin point the exact type of dnb that the track is.

 

allright

 

btw in my personal database (which nobody cares, i know... )

records are listed in 2 genres : Dnb or Breaks

cause i mix "jungle-dnb-and-so-on" and "nuskoolbreaks-garage-grime-and-so-on"

in fact they are most likely listed by number of Bpm.

 

perhaps that kind of listing would be enough here ???

(i mean like haste said: dnb, hip-hop, house, etc...)

[Phokus]

I think there is a place for having genre listed, especially seeing as the site, at some point, may branch out into more than just jungle/dnb. It would be good to have multi-genre 12s listed and the genres will really only be there to show whether a tune is dnb as opposed to house or hip hop, not to pin point the exact type of dnb that the track is.

 

Also useful because a lot of dnb artists have branched out into other territories.

[thijs]

just something interesting i found:

 

http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html

[sch_pr]

just something interesting i found:

 

http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html

 

 

yeah i already saw this one (though i'm not agree for everything... :smile: , espacially the comments) (eg: "How did this music get past the censors?" "this stuff is fucking boring...")

 

It makes me think of a guy (just can't remember his name at the moment), who had drawn a huuuge "20th-century-music-heard-in-england" layout with all the ramifications.

This layout lead him to notice that a "genre" had been forgotten and never existed : the meeting of acid and brass.

 

He got in touch with the William Fairley's brass band, and ask them to play big acid classic...

Pretty fun and interresting to here things like "voodoo ray" played by a brass band

 

[ edit: link to the album titles ]

 

But i get a little off the topic here... :cool:

[Phokus]

just something interesting i found:

 

http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html

 

Interesting concept. Don't agree with a lot of the definitions, examples, and links between subgenres (eg, how is neurofunk on the opposite side of the tree to techstep?), but hey.

[haste]

Ah yeah, I saw that before...their description of jump up is criminal :cry:

[theorie]

Ah yeah, I saw that before...their description of jump up is criminal :cry:

 

Yeah, it's hardly impartial... not to mention they've picked so well obscure, totally shit tracks to represent.

According to the schematic ragga jungle was around in the 80's???

[theorie]

I would say in Ram's Case :

 

1-8 = Hardcore

9-17 = Jungle

18+ = Drum & Bass

 

this is based on the time of release & the general name for the music at the time :?

 

I don't know if you can even do it by record! eg:

 

The Touch / Valley Of The Shadows

I'd describe 'The Touch' as Hardcore and 'Valley of The Shadows' as Drum & Bass

 

6 Million Ways To Die (Remix)

I'd describe the Uncle 22 mix as hardcore and the Hype mix as Jungle!

 

:laugh:

[Ornette]

Good point Theorie I'd agree with you about "The Touch".

 

But whats with that site? That timeline/spiderchart is just clueless. And what is this Neurofunk nonsense? No such genre. Was the name of a US website if I remember correctly.

[Phokus]

But whats with that site? That timeline/spiderchart is just clueless. And what is this Neurofunk nonsense? No such genre. Was the name of a US website if I remember correctly.

 

Neurofunk, as a term of what Optical, Stakka & Skynet, etc were doing, is a term first used by journalist Simon Reynolds. afaik, the website just jacked the name.

[Ornette]

Interesting, never knew that. would never consider using it myself, these ad-hoc genre's just turn me off.

 

i'll probably find myself typing "neurofunk" this and "neurofunk" that, now...

 

:rolleyes:

[geist]

I think genre policing, and even naming, will get very subjective very quickly. How about rolldabeats being a database for music from "the history of rave music, on through jungle drum and bass, and picking up on the various kinds of 'core and breakbeat experimentation along the way"? Such a description would sum up my taste in music, and would exclude a decent number of electronic genres, and would have drum and bass clearly in the center along with some attention to rave history and the recent experimental fringes. The problem is it's my taste in music, not an entire database-sharing community's.

 

I think rolldabeats ALREADY delves heavily into genres other than drum and bass/old school hardcore, and reflects the tastes/prejudices of people who contribute. Some of the 4-hero tracks (not on reinforced, etc) are more like jazz than they are like any electronic music. There's also a fair number of tracks on this database that reflect rave music as it was in the very late 80's early 90's, all of which have some historic thread with drum and bass in a generic sense but are really early rave music quite broadly.

 

Trying to limit it to things drum and bass-ish seems silly, because pretty soon you would end up policing things on arbitrary terms (i.e. the 32nd bar of that gabber track has a 180 bpm'ish amen loop, but then drops back into the four on the floor madness, so that track gets 'in')

 

For these reasons, I think rolldabeats should obviously still keep up with all the dnb, new and old, yet should remain fully open to submissions along the periphery of the genre, with no set rule on what is in or out.

 

I don't do computer code, and I have no idea how feasible or even interesting this might be, but it might be cool to have the classification of music be more consensus based and ongoing. Basically let every registered member of rolldabeats (with a post count above, say, 10 - to keep drunk random posters from fucking with the statistics) vote once on their take on the genre of a given track. Their one time vote would contribute one unit of voting to the pool, but how much the overall votes are 'weighted' to the original stated genre depends on all the subsequent votes over time, indefinitely.

 

So let's say that, when you go to vote on a track, you get a screen like this:

*******

(Member Name), what genre title best fits this track? Choose among the following. The rolldabeats agreed-upon definitions for each genre can be found by clicking on the genre name. Please use these when making your decision. You can only vote once.

 

Drum and Bass (Ragga):

Drum and Bass (Liquid):

Drum and Bass (Dark):

Drum and Bass (Trance):

Drum and Bass (Wobble):

Drum and Bass (Jump Up):

Drum and Bass (Tech Step):

Drum and Bass (Edits/Retro):

Drum and Bass (Live/Rock):

Drum and Bass (Atmospheric):

Drum and Bass (Old School):

Drum and Bass (Bootleg/Mashup):

Old School Hardcore:

Acid House:

Happy Hardcore:

Gabber:

DoomCore:

Industrial/Hardcore:

Hardstyle:

Breakcore:

Speedcore:

Noise:

Techno/FastTechno:

IDM/Glitch:

Abstract/Broken Beat:

Ambient:

Grime:

Garage:

Breakbeat:

 

**********

 

Now what would make this very useful (I think) is to

a) work really hard on getting clear and accurate definitions as a guide to start with, before voting is even possible.

b) allow for member creativity in voting by letting them divide up their one unit vote.

 

This would allow members to express their concern for 'fuzzy areas' while still working within the offered categoires. So if you have one unit and only that one unit with which to vote, you can split it up into fractions if you want. So, for example, a release like "The Legend" on tech itch might get

 

Drum and Bass (Dark): .75

Gabber: .25

 

Or an early Suburban Base track might get:

 

Drum and Bass (Old School): .5

Old School Hardcore: .5

 

Whereas Influx Datum's "So Sweet" would get a straightforwards

 

Drum and Bass (Liquid): 1

 

at the voting page.

 

 

...After the voting screen, the voter goes back to a link for the actual release, with their vote shown, or incorporated with the other votes (if other people have already voted). To eliminate clutter, only categories voted in would be shown, but you would get something like this:

 

(The first time)...

 

"The Legend"

1 Members Classify This Track As:

Drum and Bass (Dark): .75

Gabber: .25

 

 

(After 3 votes)

 

"The Legend"

3 Member Classify This Track As

Drum and Bass (Dark): 2

Gabber: .75

Drum and Bass (Tech Step): .25

 

 

(After a few years of voting)

 

"The Legend"

55 Members Classify This Track As

Drum and Bass (Dark): 25

Drum and Bass (Tech Step): 13.25

Gabber: 11.75

Techno/FastTechno: 3

Industrial/Hardcore: 2

 

 

and so, over time, you would have an informative reflection of consensus, which would have the more informed opinions floating to the top as more and more people vote!

 

I'm sure there are problems with this, and I don't know how feasible it is, but one problem I anticipate is new genres that come up. The voting is screwed up that way because what if the new category better describes an old track back when only a more limited range of categories was up for vote? Oh and also I think this would have to be done track by track, not release by release. Too many releases have b sides with different kinds of genres, and there are too many compilations out there.

 

Ok. That's my idea. No more late night typing for me!

[Ornette]

Interesting. Maybe a piece of algorhythym that could be considered in regards to the ongoing development and implementation of the 'MyRDB' functionality in discussion over here:

 

RDB Forum > Site Related > News > MyRDB in beta